today's conversation

For the first time ever, recent research has shown that more people in the US approve of same-sex marriage than do not. According to God’s Word, what is His design for marriage?

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38 Responses to “June 6, 2011”

  1. cali4ange says:

    Who are we to judge? It is up to God to judge what is right and what is wrong. When Jesus was on earth and went to speak to people. The theme was to know God and His ways. In no way did he condemn those that were sinning. In fact, when people were trying to throw stones at mary magdalin, Jesus says that no one should cast a stone when they themself have sinned as well.

    All we have to do is show God’s love and show them God, let God be the one to accept them or not. Through time, a lot of things have change, but God’s love and acceptance is as relevant today as it is 2000 years ago.

    • Linda says:

      I agree with you. We can’t judge. When it rains, it rains on the unjust as well as the just. To me it means, God loves all his children no matter what their situation is. It’s up to God. I know, I can’t judge.

  2. gracia1 says:

    I agree with you that we need not judge each other because All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God. However, God has called us to obey his commands, love each and love him. God does not hate the sinner but hates the sin. God’s word does not change but we have. We have conformed to this world to this world and are afraid to call sin by its name. If you read Levites, it states that man should not have sexual relations with another man Leviticus 18:22.

    Now I am not saying that they are not born with these desires and you are filthy and just wrong. But I do believe and know that the male body was made for a women. We do not question if a man should marry a women because they become one flesh. I believe we need to hold up the standard without rejecting the person, especially in the church.

    • nok10 says:

      I agree with you. We need to obey God’s word and not conform to the ways of this world. As Christians we must uphold God’s standard and not compromise with the world’s standard just to please people. Sin is sin and God hates sin.

  3. zero_g says:

    If this is the sign of the world going to hell in a handbasket, then at least it will be a well designed matching handbasket. :)

    The first thing I wonder about is how many gay couples would get married before a priest if the government didn’t give special consideration to marriage.

    Secondly, perhaps God created gay people as a way of controlling population growth. I would rather see a gay couple who passed a test raising a kid than most of the heterosexual couples I see who met the minimum requirement, ie. they are not gay.

    Thirdly, if they were made that way, then who are we to step in and keep them from enjoying a lifelong relationship with their soul-mate. As cali4ange said, lets get out of His way and let Him sort it out.

    I can see more benefits of gay marriage than I can see by banning it. What is everyone afraid of? We are talking about a gay monogomous lifelong bond between two people who want to profess this before God. Scary! ;)

    • jeGeddes says:

      THERE IS NO BENEFIT WITH GAY MARRIAGE. DO YOU HERE ME? At this very moment there are kids being raised by gay parents, they are some of the most broken, puzzled, confused kids anyone has ever met. There is no point putting such a hard burden on the children. For example, a boy needs masculinity from his father, but at the same time, he NEEDS his mothers nurture. Plus the bible says that homosexuality is a sin, I’ll even quote.

      Ro 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over b to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
      Ro 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

      It does sadden me greatly to see the church embracing the gay movement. It is counter to what the bible says, and the gays will receive “the due penalty for their perversion”. So it does come down to whether you follow Christ, or this world. Marriage IS between one man and one woman. Nothing else!

      • zero_g says:

        Hi jeGeddes, thanks for the reply. My wife passed away 2 years ago leaving me to raise our two-year-old by myself. It breaks my heart when he says “I want my mommy.” This has only made it more difficult to raise a child, not because there is no mommy, but because their is only one parent.

        There are far more things that parents can do to do to create “broken, puzzled, confused kids” in a full heterosexual family configuration. There is divorce, alcoholism, work-aholism, addictions to illegal drugs and addiction to prescription drugs (which affected our family) to name a few.

        I cannot find anywhere in the Bible where it says addiction to prescription drugs is a sin, but it had a devasting affect on anyone who knew my wife. It is wrong and would be considered a sin if it existed when the Bible was written. I say this to remind us that we cannot look at the Bible in absolutes and with objectivity, we must weigh what was said with our life today and use discernment but without judging.

        The passages you quoted address the problem as men saw it. The pagans were drunk with lust and debauchery. It was obviously wrong. But looking today, we are talking about two people of the same sex seeking a monogomous lifelong relationship. I think it’s a little different than the picture painted in those passages.

        • jeGeddes says:

          Indeed, homosexuality today may be different to the time of Paul, but the Bible clearly says, that a married relationship is between one man and one woman, just read the start of Genesis. Man is destined to leave home and to find a woman, and woman a man. Besides of which, the issue isn’t two men or women looking for a lifelong relationship, it is two gender confused people both sharing the same problem. However I’m not saying that we should condemn the gays, but we should counsel them. Homosexuals are very broken people, they are tempted in ways we can only imagine. But Marriage is for man and woman, and we need to say that in the public square, because if we don’t, marriage will become even more corrupt than it already is.

          PS I am sorry to here about your wife, and I pray for God’s blessings on your family. I do know that divorce, alcoholism and work-aholism wreaks havoc in children as well, and we need to fight against those evils with equal fury as we do against the gay-rights movements.

          PPS The heart of my arguments come from this site
          http://www.breakpoint.org/bpcommentaries/entry/13/17196

          • zero_g says:

            Thanks for the link. The man makes a pretty good logical explanation. It would have been nice to read before I had kids.

            Rather or not they are born this way or not, it still requires some personal knowledge of each person’s situation inorder to help them through these identity struggles. Beating them over-the-head by calling it a sin doesn’t help our case of spreading His word. It just causes them to resist anything we have to say. There are so many more ways for everyone to qrow spiritually, it is a shame when petty things like this block the way.

        • slaw says:

          Just some food for thought…. we are to live holy and respect our bodies too… i was speaking about the prescriptions and our mate choices… i have made a many mistakes too in both areas of my life… if interested check out my commet… i hope i did not offend.. I’m just a concerned christian offreing some compassion…

      • nok10 says:

        amen. Marriage is between one man and one woman. Nothing else.

  4. gracia1 says:

    I definitely agree with the fact they could be gay couples raising kids instead of heterosexual couples. I also agree that we should get out of the way and let God deal with it. I am not accountable for other peoples actions, so why force my views on them. God doesn’t force his views on us, we have to choose. Sadly, we force our views on others.

    Question, do you believe that God would bless a marriage that he does not condone? Could God bless a union that is outside his view? I hear alot of subjective viewpoints regarding we are not under the Levitical Law, God knows who I am, I am created this way? I know God loves all people in spite of our mess but could be bless our mess?

    • Clarence Wong says:

      Contrary to your view garcia1, God does call us to be accountable for our brothers and sisters in Christ. Matthew 18:15-18 clearly states that if your brother is sinning, go point it out to him.

      It is not our personal view that carries weight but the God’s view.

      Many a time it is just easier to let other ppl work out their salvation while we mind our own business. “Hey if its their sin let God deal with them”. Sounds familiar? But when we have such an opinion, we are not doing as God ask us to. That itself is disobedient and disobedient is sin.

      Truth is when we choose to get involve, to counsel and to help others to repent from those sins, things gets messy both for them and for us. It takes great courage, strength & God’s love to do so.

      It is not out of selfishness that we rebuke the ‘homosexual act’. But out of God’s love for the gay ppl out there.

      How can we bring forth the kingdom of God if us as individuals continue to live in sinful lives and others around them of the family of Christ choose to sweep it under the carpet and ‘leave it to God’?

      • zero_g says:

        Matthew 18:15 does not seem relevant to me here. The sin is not against you and that applies to a lot of other sins too, like abortion for example.

        Also, when Jesus refers to ‘another believer’, not all gay people are believers. And what is He saying they must believe? Believe that homosexuality, is a sin? Believe in God? Believe that He died for their sins? I think it means the latter, but if they don’t believe homosexuality is a sin, then it doesn’t apply to the person you are confronting.

        I like to think Jesus was telling us that it is our job to confront fellow Christians who we know very well. I for one would not listen to anything someone who doesn’t know me has to say about what I should or should not do. Matthew 7:1-2

        I think we have to leave it to God when we step outside our group of close friends. Taking the moral high ground doesn’t get you very far, as most people automatically stop listening when someone says “I’m right and your wrong” especially if they don’t know them at all.

        • jeGeddes says:

          Eze 3:17 “Son of man, I have made you a watchman j for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me.
          Eze 3:18 When I say to a wicked man, ‘You will surely die, l ’ and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.
          Eze 3:19 But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn n from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die p for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.
          Eze 3:20 “Again, when a righteous man turns r from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.
          Eze 3:21 But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself

          I believe these verses to be just as important today as it was to Ezekiel. We are not taking moral high ground at all, we are warning the wicked to turn from their evil ways. Of course we are no better. God views homosexuality as equal to lying and stealing, but we as Christians know the righteousness of God, and it is our duty to Evangelize to the homosexuals, just as we do to the thieves and murderers in prison. We tell them that their sin is wrong, but point to new life in Jesus Christ. It is then up to the sinner to decide whether to believe or not. Either way, we have performed our duty. (and by-the-way if the person does believe, then comes repentance from sin and the struggle for eternal glory.)

          • zero_g says:

            We are taking the moral high ground here, no matter how you say it. I am just saying the technique of putting your foot down and saying it is a sin because it says so in the Bible, is not working. It turns people off to the message we are trying to spread. They see the hypocracy. We are seen as ‘haters’ in their eyes.

            Homosexuality is not the same as lying or stealing because it is not wronging someone else. I think this is a big differense and opens this so called sin to the debate we are having here.

  5. kcourt says:

    The really sad thing is that we as a church do not know that the marrige between a man and a woman is the shadow or type of the Bride’s relationship to the Bridegroom. That is why all unions that do not stick to the mandate of marrige as set forth in the Bible is a perversion of what God has instituted. It mocks God and makes fun of Him. The other sad thing is that we do not believe the Bible when it says that God judges not just personal sin, but sin as a nation.
    We must love people for sure but we can do that and educate people at the same time.

  6. GODscat says:

    as a person walks with GOD, we become a new creation inCHRIST,old ways are gone and we become renewed.I struggle with drugs,I’ve been c&s 9 mos,some day are harder than others. I belive if we read GODs word and look into our hearts and be honest with self we will know the truth.Yes GOD will forgive 70×7.know we do deal with spiritual warfare and he wants us to think everything is okay.let us not be fooled.

  7. pampauley65 says:

    I believe homosexuality is wrong because the Bible says it is wrong. And I believe gay marriage is wrong because God created Adam/man and Eve/woman and Christ is the Bridegroom and the church is his Bride.
    I don’t have to love the sin but I can still love the person.
    I just get discusted because our nation can take God out of our schools, our government, etc. but the media is infiltated by homosexuality and has numbed us to the belief that it is wrong.

    • charlottenc says:

      pampauley65 –

      The Bible also says salvery is acceptible. Does it not? Colossians:

      Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

      You could purchase men, women, and children and it was right. Why do we not practice slavery now when the Bible clearly states that it was allowed, acceptible, and even had regulations for the protection of the slave?

      I struggle with this all the time.

      • jeGeddes says:

        The bible also says that the slave traders will be punished for their sins (1 Ti 1:9-10). If slave traders are sinners, then the slave trade is a sin. The only reason there are regulations in the bible concerning slaves is that there were slaves at the time the book was written and the writer (in this case Paul), wanted to let the people know that slaves were equal to everyone, made in the image and likeness of God. (Ge 1:27)

  8. daisymarygoldr says:

    It is a proven fact that more people in the Church (not the world)

    – approve of looking at the opposite gender lustfully(adultery)

    – approve of pre-marital sex (fornication)

    – approve of remarriage after divorce that is not based on marital unfaithfulness (double adultery)

    – approve of same-sex marriage (homosexuality).

    According to God’s Word, what is His design for marriage?

  9. lindagma says:

    It saddens me to see so many voices crying out the world views. Either we believe God’s word or we don’t. Jesus loved the sinners and healed them, he also taught them and NEVER did he compromise the WORD.
    First of all…Gays are NOT born that way. It is learned! The scientific “proof” that there is a gene that makes them gay is flawed and financed by the homosexual community. As Dr. Dobson said, if it was genetic..then why would one Identical twin be gay and one not.
    Secondly, they are not happy, well adjusted people. In my 69 years, I have been acquainted with a number of gays and they have all sat with me and told me how miserable they were. They are also not monogamous. If you read the statistics, they usually have multiple, multiple partners.
    Yes it is up to us to love the sinner and let God be the judge but what are we teaching our children about how to live their lives if we let the world color our views on what is sin and what is not. We can love them and let God change their hearts…and there are many He has changed. Their is a huge organization of former Gays who are now married and living in a normal relationship…they will tell you exactly the same thing I have said…Gay is not biological…it is learned behavior.

    • zero_g says:

      Hi lindagma,

      I don’t know if they are made that way or not, in fact it is not an evolutionarily stable trait, meaning gay people do not reproduce naturally. That is why I thought it was a population control gene, if anything. If it is learned behavior then I think we have to assume belief in God is learned behavior, as I am sure you could find a set of twins who disagreed on God, whether the Bible should be taken literally or not, and even what consitutes ‘sin’. Acts 10:15

      Maybe they are miserable because they feel they are being judged (Matthew 7:3). Who gave us fellow Christians the authority to decide what is right for everyone? I personally don’t care whether a person is gay or not, or even what their sin is. What upsets me is the how the love and compassion Jesus showed for EVERYONE by dying on the cross, is dragged through the mud by judging homosexuals in His name.

      • jeGeddes says:

        And we can show love and compassion by saving homosexuals from their sin. If done CORRECTLY, you are not judging them at all, you are proposing a much better way to live. The secular culture would like people to believe that all Christians are imposing their beliefs on others, when actually, most often they are proposing a better way to live. Zero_g, you’re a Christian aren’t you? Don’t you seek to see God’s kingdom expand? Last time I checked, God’s kingdom didn’t expand by merely letting God do all the work, God much prefers to use his human implements.

        • zero_g says:

          Yes, I am a Christian, a Methodist. I seek the expansion of God’s kingdom in the hearts of His people, both in number and in quality within each one of them. I am a firm believer that the body of Christ does ALL the work. The actual work is done when we help others grow spiritually. We do this through compassion, understanding and love for each other in a safe environment. An environment where they can share their deepest thoughts and feelings without fear of being judged. God does His work through us in this environment. This is where people reconcile with God and find out whether God planned for them to be gay or not. In the end it is really something for them to learn about themselves, which is the real truth.

          • jeGeddes says:

            Heb 13:4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

            Well, how ever you approach the gay, he/she is only going to be judged eventually. They can either be saved by us, or judged by God. As you can see in the verse above, we are called to keep the marriage bed pure, which means NO gay marriage. Of course, we Christians can’t do anything to stop people turning gay, but we can say that they can’t marry in a Christian church, because God commands us to honor marriage, and to keep the marriage bed pure.

            If you want me to stop quoting the bible, I will. Instead I will say, look at nature. Do you see two male rabbits, showing affection for each other? Or how about two female ducks? NO! Animals are naturally attracted to the opposite sex, so we should too.

            I also agree with the statement of getting to know the person. That’s what counseling is about! Normally one would express all their feelings to the counselor and the counselor will try to help. I disagree with Christians standing at a distance yelling abuse at gays. God created gays just as he created you or I (although he didn’t create the person gay, circumstance made the person gay). So instead of standing back yelling abuse, we should help the people get over their temptations. It isn’t condemning at all!!! We are supposed to help people through temptation, and in return (maybe) they might help us through our temptations. It is the idea of a soul friend.

  10. charlottenc says:

    pampauley65 –
    The Bible also says salvery is acceptible. Does it not? Colossians:
    Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.
    You could purchase men, women, and children and it was right. Why do we not practice slavery now when the Bible clearly states that it was allowed, acceptible, and even had regulations for the protection of the slave?
    I struggle with this all the time.

  11. peacedove says:

    When faith in God is placed first and foremost,then these passages make sense. The Lord than can work miracles and do all the things that mortal men cannot explain.Look again…..the verse reminds us to keep looking forward to our reward in Heaven!!!

    This I have found out about the Gay marriage issue.My old self cheered when unions between the same sex became legal.Through my new spiritual eyes, how wrong it is very clear.
    It fits right in to the watering down of the churches in todays world.These things are supposed to
    happen in the end times.

    Peter attacked Malchus,cutting off his ear.He was trying to protect Jesus.(We cannot attack others for any reason)
    But,Jesus was certifying that the bible prophecy`s are true. He restored Malchus`s ear and sent him home with only a scare.The battle hardened Centurion even acknowledged Jesus was the son of Gos as he hung on the cross.

    We cannot treat people with violence or retaliation.

    What we really need next is a discussion on the pro-life/choice debate. When doctors are gunned down while sitting at the dinner table,clinics are torched and blown up,that is not right at all.

  12. charlottenc says:

    But it is not just this particular verse. The Bible says many times over that slavery is allowed.

    Why do we not practice slavery if God approves as long as we treat slaves without sin against them?

    What makes the social stigma against slavery ok to go against the Bible’s words, but not gay marriage?

    Was the Bible wrong about slavery? Is the Bible wrong about gay marriage?

    The contexts are not the same from those times to now, but the root of them still applies.

    Slavery was abolished because?

    (I’m not saying I agree with slavery either!)

    • jeGeddes says:

      Slavery was abolished because people thought it was inhumane. The reason why the bible seems to affirm slavery was because there was a different culture back when the Bible was written (I’m not saying that it isn’t relevant to today’s culture). Polygamy is similar, we read Jacob had two wives and Solomon had a thousand wives, but these days, your only allowed one wife. Why? Because, as we saw with Solomon, he walked away from God because he had so many wives.

      The bible isn’t wrong about anything, when the bible mentions slavery, it gives a fairly neutral perspective on it. However, when it comes to gay marriage, the Bible takes a fierce stance against it. (Although some people say the verses are irrelevant since the homosexuality the Bible describes is drunk and pagan. Modern homosexuality is still homosexuality, thus a sin.)

  13. bethwhi says:

    Read through to the end, you will discover my view to be not as it first appears: As a follower of the Bible, it is very clear that God has designed man to be with woman in intimate relationships. Verses in the old and new testament declare that homosexuality is not His design. As God’s word, I must accept that whether I like it or not.
    His word also says very clearly and far more often to love thy neighbor. No opt out is given for lifestyle choice. I am happy with this.
    What does all of this lead me to believe about same sex marriage? It is irrelevant to my faith walk as it is a worldly legal concept. I will go on focusing on the heart of the person in front of me. If that heart is in the place God wants it to be, the choice of whether to engage in gay marriage or not will be irrelevant.

    I constantly find the need to remind myself to un-complicate life. Far more serious and life-threatening things exist than using precious energy to fight things that are largely irrelevant if we are getting it right elsewhere.

  14. GChoo says:

    Yes, we are right to say ‘who are we to judge?’ but, we must (very importantly) obey all God’s commands in the Bible and not what the world/society had interpreted for God.

    Love is not easy to comprehend. However, Jesus has shown it to us from His sacrifice on the cross for our sin – the suffering He had to go through. Can we be like Him? To be willing to point out God’s truth in a gentle way even when we may suffer the consequences?

    All i know is that God’s Word will never change, it applies in the past, today and forever. Stay close to God’s Word, constant fellowship and seek clarification from different sources (ministers and theologians) when unsure. May we continue to pray for God’s wisdom and discernment.

  15. slaw says:

    WOW… GOD is the same as he has always been….but me, the former me… the lesiban…. the misguided seeker of affection and the seeker of true love at my own level of what I thought love is and should be…. what a laugh… GOD said man needed a help-mate because it was not good for him to be alone…. who am I to turn his purposes for me to a lie or say it’s uncomfortable to live with the oppisite sex…. I will no longer change his truth to an abomination… I will wait until he heals my heart to share my intimate feelings with the man he made for me to share my life with in HOLY marriage, to be his help- mate. My former lover and I also love each other enough to understand and stop practicing lesibism so we can spend enternity in heaven. I don’t want to end up with all of the other fornicators, liars, idolaters, adulterers, thieves, covetors, drunkards, swindlers, revilers that will be; forever placed away from GOD after his judgement…. So I am spiritually mature enough to marry according to GOD’s plan and purpose or ask him to shield me from evil impulses of the devils influence until i die…{ if his plan was for me to remain single…} I am willing to give up my wants for HEAVEN and to live with my Saviour forever in peace…. What would you give up here on earth; to live in peace with GOD forever in heaven? I’m not the judge i am just trying to follow the rules in HIS book…. The HOLY BIBLE….

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